So I’m in New York, right
which is particularly good because New York City contains this shop called Lane Bryant. Lane Bryant is a chain that sells plus-sized clothes that:
(a) cater for women who are big and curvy, not thin-legged and pot bellied and if any buyers for Evans are reading this can you PLEASE take some notes? and
(b) also appreciate that tall people can be fat and actually do trousers that cover the whole of a tall fat person’s leg, Evans buyers this is another one for you particularly YES YOU, and
(c) vaguely resemble clothes that fashionable people might want to wear, but are made a bit bigger to enable fat people to be fashionable and fat and tall at the same time. WRITE THAT ONE DOWN TOO PLEASE EVANS BUYERS.
I went into Lane Bryant this afternoon, which would be one of your UK evenings, with my usual game plan in mind: place credit card on counter; buy anything I feel like; close eyes; sign bill; continue to make minimum payments on credit card without looking at balance. I justify this on the basis that being tall, fat and small waisted means that I rarely find anything to wear in the UK and therefore a couple of hundred dollars in the US is acceptable, particularly as George Bush is currently cocking up their economy considerably more than Gordon Brown has yet done with ours.
So. I head over to their jeans shelves, because their jeans have always been great: they cater for every sort of fat figure and every height. And I find that they have changed their sizing since I last went. They used to size their jeans on American sizing (i.e. their 14 is our 16-18). Now they have replaced that with a new system that goes from 1-8.
I know why they have done this. Some marketing genius has decided that Lane Bryant will score big points with the silent porkjority by affording them the opportunity, just once in their fat miserable lives, to be a size 2-10. Well, thanks, marketing genius, but don’t fucking patronise me. I am fat. Not stupid, and not blind. I know what clothes size I am because every single other shop in the country uses the same sizing system and the reason I’m in your shop is because most other shops don’t cater to it. I know I am big - that is why I am in your fat ladies’ shop in the first place, actually - and deciding you’re going to rechristen a size 18 a size 4 or whatever isn’t fooling me or anyone else.
What you have actually done is taken from me the thing I like most about fat ladies’ shops. And that’s the fact that they are the only clothes shops that I can go into, find clothes in my size, take them off the shelf and go and try them on in a changing room. You know? Like a normal person in a normal shop? Perhaps this is just me, but even at the best of times I hate being “helped” in clothes shops. I hate being fat and I hate shopping for clothes and I really don’t want anyone else to be involved. Not even other fat people and not even in a plus size shop. I just want to browse around, find some clothes I like, try them on, be pleased and buy them - which isn’t too hard if people will leave you the fuck alone to look around in peace - and then get the fuck out. But today I had no choice, because there was nothing that explained this weird new sizing regime.
So when the very thin woman came over to me and asked if I needed help with the jeans, I said I did.
“Is this new sizing system to distract me from the fact that I’m a big fatty fatster?” I joked, and she gasped.
“Oh honey,” she said reproachfully, wrapping a tape measure round my waist, “we don’t say ‘fat’ in this store, we say ‘plus sized’.”
She asked me my UK size and I told her and she handed me a pair of jeans. I went to the changing room to try them on and couldn’t get them past my thighs. I put my skirt back on, came out and said, “I need the next size up”, and this is where it all got a bit weird.
She turned around, stared at my hips and then said, “Oh my GOD.”
“What?” I asked.
“Oh WOW,” she said, shaking her head, “you really DO need the next size up. In fact I’d say two or three. Wow.” She shook her head again. “You really do have some hips, don’t you? I mean, look what you’re CARRYING there!”
“Um,” I said, really quite surprised.
“I mean, I didn’t realise how BIG your HIPS were because you were wearing a skirt -”
“You mean this one I’m still wearing?”
“- but you are seriously carrying one HELL OF A LOT OF WEIGHT BACK THERE.”
I’m just going to pause here and say that I am not making any part of this conversation up. I promise.
“Try these,” she said, handing me another pair of jeans.
I went back into the changing room, closed the door and looked at myself in the mirror. I know it probably sounds ridiculous, but I was really gutted. You see, I know I’m overweight and I know you aren’t supposed to say this even if you aren’t but generally speaking I think I look all right. I’m bigger than I should be, there’s no doubt about that, but I still basically like the way I look, and most of the time I sort of assume that other people do too, or at least that I don’t actually look revolting. But every now and again I look at myself in the mirror and hate me. When I looked at myself in the mirror this time, all I could see was acres and acres of fat Katy Newton. I spent the next five minutes trying not to cry. Then I tried on the new jeans, which went on very easily, so I bought them. And then I got the fuck out of there before I burst into tears properly or set someone on fire. But now that I’ve calmed down a bit, here’s how I feel:
1. Pah! Some saleswoman. She could have had $300 out of me but instead she was lucky to make $40. I pity the fool!
2. What does she know anyway? This morning in Macy’s a man actually sprinted to catch up with me at the door to ask for my number, AND he was okay-looking-bordering-on-the-almost-acceptable. (I said no. Hey, he could have been anybody.)
3. I needed it. Well, I didn’t need it, actually, and she should have minded her own fucking business and stuck to handing me jeans. But it’s certainly filled me with resolve.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she did me a favour. She was a fucking bitch whether she meant to be or not. Everyone knows you do not say stuff like that, especially when you work in a shop that’s supposed to provide a supportive atmosphere for women who are made to feel like shit in other shops. Yes? But what I mean is this: ideally I’d obviously like people to KEEP THEIR COCKING MOUTHS SHUT and REMEMBER THEIR COCKING MANNERS. Of course. But apparently people will insist on being cunts. And since you can’t even rely on people who work in fucking plus-size shops to be polite to the fuller-figured, I suppose I’ll have to go for option B, which is simply this:
STOP BEING SO FUCKING FAT.
—————————–
And now for The Kicker:
I was in such a rush to get out that I didn’t notice, but these jeans are miles too big for me.
As I heard on ‘The Bachelor US’, “She is riding my nerves like a pony”.
Some cunt on a bicycle nearly mowed me down on the pavement the other day and said “get out of the way, you fat bitch”. I was cross for a while, then sad, then heard him say it to someone else across the road who wasn’t fat, and then I forgot about it.
Anyway. Take the too-big jeans back, get the money, get in a cab and go to Eileen Fisher, RIGHT NOW. Go to the one on West Broadway. Go to Anthropologie on the way and buy some pointless tat for your house. But mainly got to Eileen Fisher, which would suit you, and swan about, and spend $280 on a dress and fucking love it forever and maybe dribble. Also do not underestimate the silk sleeveless t-shirts for the wearing under things. They are $70 but worth it. Also do not only look in the “Woman’ (i.e. fat) section - go and look elsewhere. You will see what I mean by investigating the cut.
That is all.
Comment by non-workingmonkey — March 19, 2008 @ 2:55 am
Listen to the monkey. Eileen Fisher is fierce. ( sorry, still stuck in Project Runway speak.)
Comment by asta — March 19, 2008 @ 4:12 am
Wait. Did you say you’re in NEW YORK?
Sigh….
Comment by Jill — March 19, 2008 @ 4:29 am
Yes fucking bitch blah blah blah. Cunt etc etc etc. I am appalled.
BUT A MALE STRANGER RAN UP TO YOU AND ASKED FOR YOUR NUMBER. That is awesome. GO YOU.
Comment by Wendy — March 19, 2008 @ 9:44 am
that is OUTRAGEOUS. i gaped - yes, gaped - when i read what that bitch said to you. she is a feculent moron and please continue to extract only positives from this horrible encounter. she’ll get hers, one day. karma is a bad-ass muthafukka, you can be sure of that.
also, a beautifully worded letter of complaint to the store might be in order.
Comment by One Fine Weasel — March 19, 2008 @ 9:44 am
Unreal. Un-FUCKING-real. I was waiting for some “But what she really said was…” - but that is unbelievable. Fuck them and fuck her.
Comment by Cliff — March 19, 2008 @ 11:34 am
What an unutterable troll. I find it particularly entertaining, in this politically correct society, that it’s not on to refer to oneself as a fatty fatster, but apparently it’s fine for her to say those things to you. When she works in a shop which specialises in clothes for a certain part of the market. And has just told you off for commenting on your own figure.
Comment by Kitchen Witch — March 19, 2008 @ 11:38 am
That’s a dreadful thing to say as a shop assistant, yes. I mean, it’s actually a kind of plain-speaking I appreciate in friends but yes, this was comprehensively not a ‘friend’ situation, it was a shop, and she was meant to be assisting you, not being over-familiar. So boo to that. But how come we can’t hear more about this man, pls?
Comment by anna — March 19, 2008 @ 11:42 am
That is crazy, Cliffy, because I totally just nominated this for Post of the Week like two seconds ago.
And yes, that really is what she said. Anna thought that she might have meant it in a sort of complimentary “junk in the trunk” way, which actually is possible, but we both agreed that if you work in a clothes shop you should really stick to helping people find their size rather than telling them how amazingly enormously huge they are.
I mean, I’m generally a UK size 18. It’s bigger than average but I think it is unlikely that no one bigger than me has ever walked into Lane Bryant on W 34th St.
Comment by Katy Newton — March 19, 2008 @ 11:42 am
OMG and there I was mentioning Anna and now she is HERE!
Oh, the man. I was standing at the back of Macy’s admiring their annual Flower Show (see here) and suddenly this bloke comes running up to me and gasps, “Your hair is BEAUTIFUL! You look AMAZING! That’s NICE! Can I have your number?”
You know that whole thing in Sex and the City where the girls are always getting asked out at bus stops and in parks and shops and stuff? It’s TRUE. New York men are very direct. If they see you and think you’re pretty they’ll just tap you on the shoulder and ask for your number. I WANT TO LIVE HERE.
Comment by Katy Newton — March 19, 2008 @ 11:47 am
I had de-lurk myself to comment on this. What a cow! I’m not so sure what I would have said other than “erm..” since I would have been caught off guard but you can be sure I’d be planning her slow and painful death all the way back to England. I’m a rather full figured buxom and curvy woman myself and this would have really got on my tits.
As an aside, there are so many men who prefer larger ladies rather than the typical run of the mill get ‘em while they’re still breathing skinny woman. I know, I’ve dated loads of ‘em. (hmm, that made me sound a but of a tart)
Skinny, rude saleswomen in fat lady shops…beware! We’re on to you and we’re coming to get you.
Comment by 42 — March 19, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
Jesus, you should, that’s just LOVELY! How flattered would I be if that happened to me?! I have no idea! Because it has NEVER HAPPENED! But it has to you! How amazing are you, therefore? You are MOST amazing.
Comment by anna — March 19, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
This is why I could never live in New York, because I’ve never asked for a stranger’s number. Thanks for the nom. Was in Macy’s last year for the flower show - I miss it. Did you give him your number? So????
Comment by Cliff — March 19, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Oh yeah - the Easter parade outside St. Pat’s is a bit rubbish but get up early on Sunday, buy a coffee and walk down the 5 blocks of 5th that they close in the morning - you get to walk down the middle of the deserted avenue and feel really important while taking pictures from unusual angles.
Comment by Cliff — March 19, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
Yay to men asking for numbers. Boo hiss to evil thin sales women (I bet she’d had so much plastic surgery she was sporting a fetching moustache. Please, please tell me I’m right?)
New York? Hoorah! Bring me back some Herseys kisses (am I the only woman in the world who likes these?)
Comment by nuttycow — March 19, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
What a rude salesperson! I was in a store once, trying something on, and I had to ask the salesperson for the next size up(i think it was 12 or 14) and she made some comment about how I probably didn’t want to say that out loud so other people could hear. I wish I had told her that no, I really don’t care what she or anyone else thinks about what arbitrary number is on the inside of my trousers. Instead I got dressed and left that store (and probably went to the food court at the mall, but so be it). Now I shop online. I wonder, Katy, if you can shop on lanebryant.com from the UK?
Comment by Karen — March 19, 2008 @ 3:53 pm
Karen - you can’t even email them from the UK!
Comment by chairwoman — March 19, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
Absolutely appalling behaviour.
But interesting on the phone number collector.. like Cliff it’s not something I would ever do, partly because I imagine hearing ’sod off shortarse’ would be quite depressing, but also because if the situation was reversed I’d assume the person was:
a) a nutcase of some description, from harmless loon to psychopath via obsessive stalker-type
b) an arrogant cock, to actually have that much nerve
c) doing it for a bet
d) a jerk if he thought I was going to give my number to a complete stranger in this day & age
But then I do have a very low opinion of human nature
Comment by jd — March 19, 2008 @ 9:24 pm
Your bit about Evans made me giggle. Has anyone else noticed how they are making arms on jackets and tops really really skinny just now. So you can try on a jacket in say a UK size 18 and end up needing a size 22/24 just to get your arms into it whilst it balloons out everywhere else!!! As for the bitch sales assistant i’d have punched her in the mouth and walked out. One of my pet hates about larger size clothes shops is a) they start now at size 10 or 12!!!!! I mean WTF is that all about. And also how the sales assistants are usually dead skinny. I don’t want some skinny bitch to serve me i want someone normal sized to serve me in one of those shops. After Easter am defo back on my diet big time even if i can’t go rejoin a gym to exercise yet due to capput shoulder.
Comment by Caff — March 20, 2008 @ 2:03 am
Unfortunately, fat-wise, I am the opposite of you Katy - like a rubber ball on matchstick legs (yeah, sounds attractive, doesn’t it?)
I don’t have womanly curves - I am just a complete circle on top.
Evans clothes don’t fit me either, so I have no idea who they are aiming at if not the curvy type like you.
I shop at Ann Harvey quite a bit, but:
1) They are a bit overpriced for the quality
2) They are rather middle aged (but then, so am I, regrettably)
3) They used to do nice narrow legged trousers but no chance now - they all flap around my thighs.
So, I have decided to live in clothes that a far too big for me (24/26) until I get down to a size that can be found in ‘normal’ shops. And yes, I do look like a mad old tramp most of the time, but I’m past caring. It’s only for a few months while I’m a ‘work in progress’
Comment by Another Wendy — March 20, 2008 @ 8:23 am
Caff - Yes, the arms! I’m so glad it isn’t just me. I had started to think that my arms were even worse than they are. How, I wondered, had the rest of me diminished, but my arms were like Arnie’s?
May I recommend, for everyday clothes, the Shoe Tailor, not bad all round, inexpensive, and not skimped around the arms. Over the past two years, while being chairbound, I have gradually shrunk from their size 30 to their size 22, a combination of WWs and being unable to raid the fridge and biscuit cupboard.
Comment by chairwoman — March 20, 2008 @ 10:46 am
Please, Please, Please- write a letter of complaint to Lane Bryant Corporate and include as many details as you care to. Her behavior is entirely unacceptable and should be exposed. Be sure to point out that you were looking forward to and planning on fitting yourself with a spring wardrobe but had put your money back in your pocket and left. Change doesn’t come without pressure.
Comment by cz — March 20, 2008 @ 11:45 am
Hi, I just HAD to comment on your experience!
LANE BRYANT SALES PEOPLE ARE BITCHES!!!
My good friend and I shop there and have had some mortifying experiences. I am a size 14 or 16 (their clothes don’t fit me properly, but definitely need their bras!!) and my friend is a size 26.
We have gone to many L.B.’s in our area and have been treated very unkindly! ALL THE TIME! But the thing is, like you mentioned, it is a great shop for plus-sized clothes. They have nice styles and a good variety. For some reason though, they have the WORST salespeople.
1) First type of salesperson: THE SKINNY BITCH.
Why would a skinny girl want to work at a store for plus-sized women? A) to make themselves feel good b) for the damn discount from the other stores in the Les Wexner lines. c) to get paid to be a bitch.
My experience with these women: We went to Lane Bryant once with the new jeans system. My friend, feeling the same as you, asked me to just start bringing her all the different new sizes so we could figure it out. Who the hell wants to stand in the middle of the store and be measured? I sure as hell don’t and neither did she!!! BUt as I was smuggling jeans into the fitting room, skinny salesperson trys to intercept me and make me force my friend out of the fitting room. The unfortunate part for skinny was had no idea that my FAT stare could bring her down.
But she hovered over me, not too close, but close enough, waiting for my friend to come out. Finally my friend said that they weren’t fitting right (and she has worn L.B. jeans for years!!) so the woman said “Now can we try it the official way.” And of course we relinquished, we thought she held the key to the jeans fitting correctly! So my poor friend endured the measuring and poking and prodding. The saleswoman went and got the “perfect” jeans and they didn’t fit my friend. So she decided she made a mistake with the “perfect” measuring system and got another pair, but same deal. And then another and another. But that was it! My friend only had four choices and they all looked so bad on her and didn’t fit! So what does skinny bitch do? Throws up her hands and says very loudly “well, I guess you just happen to be one of the 1% of women who can’t fit into our new jeans. You must have a very large and odd-shaped body!”
Believe me, my friend had to drag my away from skinny bitch after I called her a bitch to her face and was ready to face plant her head into the carpet and drag her through the mall with a sign that read “I am prejudiced against FAT people”
So again, why does a skinny bitch work there? UGH!
2) Next is fat girl.(I hate calling people that, but these people are so mean, they really do deserve it!) Great fat girl, I’m fat too, let’s bond over clothes and celebrate our wonderful bodies together!
But not so fast!! Fat girl working at lane bryant is also a bitch! Surprising, yes! Why can’t she just relate to the customers? Because she is judging everyone on their fat level.
So my friend (same friend!!) and I go into a Lane Bryant when I was looking for bras. I wear a 40DDD. And I wanted to try on the new bra style. So fat girl says she will measure me, how nice! Until she starts manhandling me in front of everyone in the store. Well, she declares that yes, I am a size 40. But she measures and measures again. Sighing, she tells me the “unfortunate” news. I can’t buy bras at the shop because I am a 40DDDD. Which I believe puts you in an E! And she basically rolls her eyes and sighs in disgust as she exclaims loudly, “thats the problem with women like you who get their boobs enlarged SOOOOOOO big. You should have done something more natural. We don’t have anything for you here.”
I started tearing up! First, my boobs are totally natural. Second, I would die if I was a 40DDDD! Where could you buy bras that size? Thirdly, I have worn their bras for years (literally!) And I have been a 40DDD for two years!
Even worse was the fact that she went behind the counter and started snickering with her coworkers who all looked at me with sheer hatred. Ugh, HORRIBLE moment.
And these are the two types of people who work at Lane Bryant. In over ten years of shopping there, I have NEVER once met a nice salesperson. EVER.
I’m sorry for your experience.People shouldn’t be treated like that! I offer you my experience because you need to put on the armor in there. Be a bitch right back! No, you don’t need their help and no, you don’t care what they say to you.
Also, wanted to suggest Ashley Stewart. http://www.ashleystewart.com/AS/ They have shops in New York!
They are affordable and though they market toward African American women, my friend still loves their stuff. It is way more affordable than Lane Bryant and they have gorgeous dresses!
Good luck to you and thanks for sharing your experiences, you aren’t alone!
Comment by Pilluela — March 20, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
My mother has done incredibly well on the weight loss front. APPLAUSE.
Comment by Katy Newton — March 20, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Pilluela - gosh, clearly it is not so much a one off as a concentrated marketing strategy. I’m a 38F so goodness alone knows what they’d make of me, but then my American friends always head straight for the lingerie shops when they come to London so I think it’s one of those rare things that British manufacturers do better.
The Lane Bryant on 34th used to be an Ashley Stewart, actually, when I first started coming here, and it was much better then.
Comment by Katy Newton — March 20, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
I have written to Lane Bryant on your behalf. Wankers
Comment by non-workingmonkey — March 20, 2008 @ 11:34 pm
After years of valiant weight-loss attempts I am now what I personally consider pretty thin (between 110 and 115lb on my 5-3 inch frame). Maintenance takes hard work, though, which is why I stay vigilant about what I eat and seek support from blogs like Diet Girl´s which had a link to this entry. However, the other day two shop assistants in one day told me I was fat. First of all when I tried to buy a cereal bar in a shop the woman assistant told me that I might be better off with the diet version (full of trans fats and artificial sweeteners) and called me “Fatty”, then, later, I decided to buy some trousers that I saw in a shop window. When I asked the shop assistant to help me locate them she said “I think you´ll need our largest size” (I didn´t!) By no objective measure am I fat, and even when I was it was, frankly, no one´s business but my own. However, the comments made me go home in tears.
Comment by Latin American Slimmer — March 20, 2008 @ 11:37 pm
God, Latin American Slimmer, that is outrageous. Do you think there’s any possibility that the “fatty” comment could have been some dreadfully lame attempt at irony?
This whole thing has made me quite furious. I would be the first person to stand up and say “I’m fat and I have noone to blame but myself”, but that gives noone the right to jeer at me - and that’s what these people are doing. It’s jeering. It’s not objective help or anything positve. At best it’s insensitive stupidity.
I also acknowledge that many people have body shapes they’ve ended up with any are unhappy with due to circumstances beyond their control.
I would love to know - does this happen to other groups? Jonners and Cliff commented in an earlier entry about how people love to tell them how they should get some meat on their bones, etc. That must be annoying. I know I probably shouldn’t compare any of this to other issues - but does this happen to, say, smokers? Any smokers here been to buy gum and the assistant has said “phheeeew, ash-tray breath, why don’t you try a stronger gum” or similar?
Monkey - I would LOVE to see that letter.
Comment by Wendy — March 21, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Holy crap! Unbelievable. I am soooo glad the man asked for your number! I felt terrible that you had such a bad experience in the U.S.–really bad for our image you know– so that’s nice something balanced it out. I think I might move to NY too.
One of my worst experiences in a shop was the salesgirl discussing loudly how I should take the large size shirt because my boobs were so big. It may not sound very bad, but I was 12 at the time! I just wanted to sink into the floor. Horrifying.
Comment by Marla — March 21, 2008 @ 7:31 pm
Part of the problem down here in Buenos Aires is that clothes in trendy shops generally only come in three sizes: 1, 2 and 3. I usually wear size 1, but I have been known to need a 2 at times, and, as I said, I´m pretty petite now, having lost a lot of weight and changed my whole lifestyle. I would definitely have needed clothes bigger than the size 3 if I had come here a couple of years ago, when I was around 40lb heavier. There must be shops that cater to people who are not superskinny, but I don´t know where. I would guess that size 3, their largest size, is around a UK 12 or 14, US 8 to 10. I spotted a shop for men the other day which proudly proclaims in big letters that it has clothes for ‘Fatties’ and ‘Super Fatties’! As for the term ‘Fatty’, I think it´s often used affectionately, although most Argentine women I know find it hard to take. Many men, though, happily refer to themselves as ‘Gordo’ (Fatty) and even use it as a moniker (Hi, I´m Carlos, the Fatty). Also, the Argentines use el gordo/la gorda to refer to babies, where the usage is clearly affectionate.
Comment by South American Slimmer — March 22, 2008 @ 2:17 am
Carlos the Fatty. That is priceless and I don’t even know why.
Comment by Wendy — March 22, 2008 @ 10:06 am
That was an example from real life, Wendy. Carlos el Gordo (the Fatty) is a friend of mine and always introduces himself that way, to differentiate himself from the many, many other men called Carlos. He is a tango DJ and uses El Gordo as his DJ alias. He is, indeed, tall and pretty fat.
Comment by South American Slimmer — March 22, 2008 @ 11:57 pm
I feel an intense need here to apologize on behalf of all America for your LB experience. I hope that you will not hold it against the country as a whole (though I would totally understand it if you did). However I was really excited to read about the digit request from a complete stranger (Go You!) and am now planning my NYC vacation accordingly.
As a former sales lady at Marcia’s Big Girl Fashions (I only wish I was kidding about the name) and a plus sized gal, I am flummoxed that any retail worker in any business would consider this customer service approach a. appropriate and b. potentially successful. The heck?
Comment by Renee Oglesby — March 25, 2008 @ 7:31 pm
I loved this post Dude, it reminds me of my Mother and I who call shops for Fat ladies BFB’s (Bir Fat Bugger shops). We even have a little song we sing. I know I know that makes me sound a little crazed, but whatever floats your boat hey?!
Oh and FYI I’ve linked to it in my Blog
B x
Comment by beakerella — March 27, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
[...] diabetes in my forties. I would also like to know what its like to shop in a shop that isn’t Evans with its odd love of pregnancy bump giving sacks and jeans that grab the calf and billow around [...]
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